No Love From Voodoo :(

Discussion in 'Buildbox General Discussion' started by VectologyGames, Sep 20, 2018.

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  1. VectologyGames

    VectologyGames Serious Boxer

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    I would love to get some clarity as to why Voodoo has blacklisted Buildbox games from publishing on their platform. @TreySmith @NikRudenko Please advise on this issue.

    Thankyou Buildbox Team for your support on this issue!

    photo_2018-09-20_09-39-46.jpg
     
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  2. sebb121

    sebb121 Boxer

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    Same here. I've heard about this online, but this pretty much confirms it.
     
  3. Lamora

    Lamora Avid Boxer

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    They know we are not programmers and can't change things if needed :)
     
  4. Ash

    Ash Boxer

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  5. VectologyGames

    VectologyGames Serious Boxer

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    Not all unity devs are programmers as well
     
  6. VectologyGames

    VectologyGames Serious Boxer

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    That's fine, the question is what does Unity have that Buildbox does not. Then the next step is how do we get on the same page so we can publish on their platform. Voodoo still publishes Ios and Android games at the end of the day.
     
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  7. comicsmathias

    comicsmathias Avid Boxer

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    This explains why I never got any reply from them!
     
  8. MattWills

    MattWills Avid Boxer

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    I think this should hopefully change with BB3 as it will be unlimited in terms of nodes and JavaScript which will make any changes they would want easier
     
  9. micdune

    micdune Boxer

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    The problem also is that Buildbox lacks any feature you would need for proper retention: in game notification,no achievements of any sort etc...
     
  10. andre_sprs

    andre_sprs Serious Boxer

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    Green Panda Games told me that they don't publish BB games because they don’t get accurate analytics from Buildbox and there’s a special tool they use when publishing a game that only works in unity.
    I reported this to BB Support and this was their response:

    "With new BB2.3 AdIntegrator they can integrate any ads they want. Even easier then in Unity. But i guess the main reason is non flexibility of bb2 but bb3 will solve that issue"
     
  11. Christoph

    Christoph Miniboss Boxer

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    I would like to have an official statement as well. I clearly remember Trey saying that someone already signed a publishing deal with Voodoo and that Voodoo has absolutely no problems to publish a Buildbox game. That was back in January/February and in this same thread I posted the opposite because Voodoo told me that they do NOT publish Buildbox games simply because they don't can't. Trey publicly corrected me back then so I stopped to argue because I didn't want a fight.

    So this is pretty misleading if you ask me. But even more important, 9 months have passed by and I don't see any changes that would allow us to publish with one of the big publishers today. I talked with Green Panda and Lion Studios as well. They say exactly the same. No Buildbox games. You are forced to port to Unity. Green Panda doesn't even test Buildbox games at all.

    At the same time Buildbox is advertised as a 'build voodoo games / hyper casual games for big publishers' engine. So why not implementing tools that allows us to go with a publisher today? It should be the number 1 importance in the development of Buildbox. Change Buildbox 2 to be compatible. Add the nodes and javascript. Make it work so we can comply with what publishers like Voodoo are asking us to implement. Haven't you guys said you are talking on a weekly basis with the big publishers? And didn't you promise weekly updates since back in January? I have not seen any of this promises come true.

    It's one of these days I feel very mistaken to keep using Buildbox and angry with myself of keep believing the hype.
     
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  12. AndyG

    AndyG Miniboss Boxer

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    yeah Green Panda told me also...
    "right now, we have some issue working on BuildBox as it is not as accurate as Unity when it come to gather and analyse datas (about Facebook SDK for example). "

    they also said later...
    "The thing is we try to sort this out at the moment with the BuildBox team. As we're in contact with multiple devs like you who are working on it. As soon as we'll have more info about this we'll be able to see what we plan. "

    That was a month back.
    So the question is has @NikRudenko and Co. been working to resolve their issues?
     
  13. justforward

    justforward Avid Boxer

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  14. TreySmith

    TreySmith Administrator Staff Member

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    Hey Guys,

    Amazing timing. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I'm hosting a publisher trending event tomorrow, and will be discussing this in-depth for over an hour. I've been in heavy talks with the big UA publishers a lot these last few weeks while working on BB3 (like Ketchapp, Voodoo, GameLoft, and Lion Studios). So I have a lot of thoughts to share.

    Let's get started.

    First off, a lot has changed in the publishing space this year. A LOT. More than I have ever seen.

    Including:
    1. User Acquisition Publishers taking over
    2. 3D taking over
    3. Drawing games taking over
    4. More retention focus
    5. Tons of new ad companies
    6. Tons of new pubs in the market
    7. Etc
    It is a very different landscape than 2017. Luckily, we saw this coming, and this is why we started development (controversially) of 3D and Nodes. This is also why you see us HEAVILY invested in Buildbox 3 for development and devoting so many resources to it.

    Back on target, let's talk publishers.

    WILL USER ACQUISITION PUBLISHERS TAKE BUILDBOX 2.0 GAMES

    As mentioned, everything has changed with publishing. This is directly because of the monumental shift that Voodoo made in the market. They introduced a completely new style of publishing: UA Publishing. Now, with most large publishers, it's about user acquisition instead of Apple Features or Cross Promotion.

    This means they follow a new system of: Testing your game > Getting good numbers > Spending millions on promotion. That's

    MUCH different world than "Submit game to Ketchapp, they promote it".

    UA changed EVERYTHING.

    Now back to BB2.0. Buildbox 2.X is fine for most of these UA style publishers in this testing phase.

    Notable mentions are Ketchapp, Voodoo, Lion Studios, and TabTale (who just published Snakes VS Colors which was tested as a BB game). All of these guys have told me they are OK with Buildbox 2.X games in the testing phase, but of course, the limitations of Buildbox 2.0 could hurt you in getting int he door. (i.e. if they want 3D, drawing games, or games with heavy gameplay progression).

    Why would they want you to port for the final release?

    Because they are spending MILLIONS of dollars on the game.

    Again, this was previously unheard of. Ketchapp didn't spend millions on games. Fortafy didn't spend millions on games. No one did... No one was putting millions on-the-line for a simple hyper-casual game before.

    Now with UA it's a completely different process.

    They have custom analytics, custom SDKs, specific retention tricks and techniques they want installed in your game. They need fast changes, open ended solutions and quick turnarounds. They are spending a ton on promotion, so they need full control.

    Because of this, some of them will want you to port over to another platform if the game is picked up. I totally get it, and many of them will do this for you since the cost is negligible compared to the revenue they generate on a successful game. Also, to be clear, some of them will not care either. It depends on their needs. For example Ketchapp doesn’t care, but Voodoo will port.

    Make sure to email support if you have a major publisher interested in your game. Often times we can put their SDK inside a custom build for you. We’ve done this multiple times to help users get deals done.

    WILL NON-UA PUBLISHERS TAKE BUILDBOX 2.0 GAMES

    Yes, from what we've seen regular publishers who don't focus on user acquisition have no issue releasing Buildbox 2.0 games. They also have, of course, no problem taking Buildbox 3.0 games.

    Now for the big one:

    WILL USER ACQUISITION PUBLISHERS TAKE BUILDBOX 3.0 GAMES

    Yes, and we're going a step further than that.

    Buildbox 3.0 was created, from the start, to be future proof. This is why I chose to go with 3D early on. This is why Nik chose to go with Nodes early on. This is why we added Javascript functionality, and are allowing the community to create nodes. This is why we are creating the advanced SDK API so you can add any SDK to the software with plugins.

    So, now let me share some of my conversations and plans with Ketchapp, Voodoo, Lion Studios, Gameloft, etc.

    In Buildbox 3.0, we're going to have a specific section for major publishers where you can find checklists, SDKs, and plugins that they require.

    For instance, Voodoo's section, you'll be able to install any SDK that isn't natively shipped with Buildbox 3, enter in all your API keys in the same place, and also see a checklist from them on what they want to see in your game. They'll be helping us build out this section. (We're even discussing if there is a sensible way to send a video - or eventually the game itself - directly from the software).

    To be clear, you could do this all manually in Buildbox 3.0. We are building the software to be open enough to add any additional SDK or progression feature without our involvement. The goal with the publisher sections is to get direct feedback from the publishers on what they need, and to make it as easy as possible for users.

    THE TIMELINES

    We were planning to bring the first publisher section (Voodoo) in for Buildbox 3.0 Beta 3, but I just talked to Nik and he said we can boost this up to Buildbox 3.0 Beta 2.5. I'm having my final conversation with Voodoo on what specifically they want inside of this section next week, and I believe we will have Beta 2.5 ready to ship in about 2 weeks. This will include path, android, voodoo integration, and tons of fixes/improvements.

    Also, just so you guys know, you'll be seeing more and more usability improvements in Buildbox 3.0. My core focus right now is making the software more and more intuitive. Over the next betas you'll see improvements on ease-of-use and flow, finalized SDK API, addition of 2D, more nodes, and easier export options. That is our core focus and will be completed for a 2018 release, and we're actually ahead of the original schedule there.

    Thanks!
     
  15. Christoph

    Christoph Miniboss Boxer

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    Thanks Trey for the reply.

    My only question that remains is why not implementing this into Buildbox 2 that is your fully working software right now? Why only in Buildbox 3 that will need a lot of time to be able to be used professionally? You say you are ahead of the original schedule? Wasn't final release thought to be in August?

    Talking about the roadmap, what do you think will be the final release (fully working version without major bugs)?
     
  16. particles

    particles Avid Boxer

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    Thanks, Tery for your detailed explanation. I have started exploring BB3. It's very flexible. I have started doing bbassets and nodes, which opens a lot of innovation from developers for designers. I think 3d hyper-casual games going to be trending in coming days.

    BB3 going to use the strength of both designers and developers. That is the strength of Unity. I can foresee BB3 going to be a tough competitor to Unity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  17. spicedbeangames

    spicedbeangames Miniboss Boxer

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    I dont think BB2 was designed with all this mind and it probably makes sense to throw everything into 3.0 as that will have 2d support too.

    Spreading resources too thinly will just delay the inevitable - moving to 3.0 247.
     
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  18. AndyG

    AndyG Miniboss Boxer

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    @TreySmith are we going to see 2D Nodes in BB3 anytime soon?
     
  19. NikRudenko

    NikRudenko Administrator Staff Member

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    Hey guys. Let me be 100% honest here.
    Right now you can add any ad network or any tracking SDKs in to BB2 or BB3 using the AdIntegrator feature.
    But I guess the codeless reputation of Buildbox precedes this and publishers still assume that there can't be flexibility with their SDK's.

    So here is how we are going to fix it.
    We are going to open source BB2 and BB3. Not the whole thing, but the part that is related to Ad Integration and Analytics.
    Soon you will see new GitHub repository with all the necessary modules for all major publishers. And anyone can push changes to this repository and anyone can download from it.

    The biggest disadvantage with the AdIntegrator feature was that user would have to do all those manipulations with files. That is a little bit overwhelming. So we are going to make it a 'one button' experience for you.

    We are going to build a wrapper around AdIntegrator feature for BB3. So it will integrate all the necessary stuff that Publishers need.
    We hear you guys and we are working on it!

    Cheers
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2018
  20. AaroArts

    AaroArts Miniboss Boxer

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    So what about 2.3.7? Seems that’s what we’re currently paying a license fee for?
     
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