Fortafy Games Accused Of Plagiarization.

Discussion in 'Buildbox General Discussion' started by wesam_badr, Mar 2, 2018.

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  1. haulappmobile

    haulappmobile Boxer

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    Keke doesn't own the rights to anthropomorphic minimalist wacky birds. He owned the rights to those animations. Is Keke plagiarizing Syd's creation Trash Dove if he does?

    This seems familiar.... Screen Shot 2018-03-08 at 3.27.14 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-03-08 at 3.30.28 PM.png [/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  2. jmiller8031

    jmiller8031 Avid Boxer

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    Yes you can. Virtually every game character is modeled after an existing idea. There would have never been a Zelda or Warcraft game with out Lord of the Rings. Improvement is subjective though and always will be.
     
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  3. haulappmobile

    haulappmobile Boxer

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    That is the selective ethics I mentioned. Hold everyone accountable for this behavior because everything has roots from something else. Or hold deliberate plagiarizing accountable. Fortafy should be disciplined for copying the exact animation, but the concept of a goofy pigeon doing dumbshit is not Keke's intellectual property.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  4. VectologyGames

    VectologyGames Serious Boxer

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    I'm talking about the ACTUAL CHARACTER, not time period design choices.

    [/QUOTE] If Syd owns the copyright, then yes.
    I'm beginning to think that most people on the forums have no Idea how copyright actually works. Here is a good link: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/protecting-fictional-characters-under-copyright-law.html
     
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  5. haulappmobile

    haulappmobile Boxer

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    You should probably do a quick read yourself. I'm not sure what infringement is being made between the two assets visual design, can you tell me?
    Screen Shot 2018-03-08 at 4.24.30 PM.png

    Are you also playing the legal card or the ethical one? Here's an exact quote from the article you sent -
    “the less developed the characters, the less they can be copyrighted; that is the penalty an author must bear for marking them too indistinctly.”

    I guess you would think Gandalf and Dumbledore are infringing on copyright because they are two old dudes with beards that know magic.
     
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  6. Jamie

    Jamie Avid Boxer

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    Should I not be making a magical old white guy called Gandledore Dumbledalf?
    : )
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  7. haulappmobile

    haulappmobile Boxer

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    Hey, I'd chant in your defense while you are being handcuffed and escorted to the nearest state penitentiary!
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  8. Jamie

    Jamie Avid Boxer

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    Sauronumort Volderuman would save me
     
  9. Andy

    Andy Miniboss Boxer

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    Ah, some of my favorite topics, Copyright and Trademark. Are they muddy subjects, yes, but not THAT muddy. Are the laws unfair, some would argue yes in a compelling way, some would argue no, in a compelling way.

    Ethically speaking, if you COPY any SUBSTANTIAL portion of someone else's work then you are being unethical and most of the time running afoul of the laws. Almost 100% of the time the people doing it are either completely aware or completely ignorant.

    IMHO, IANAL, using someone else's animations and just replacing the art is definitely unethical and would be against the law nearly all the time. The primary exception here is if the work is in the public domain, which is a whole other topic on its own. Everything we're talking about here was probably created too recently for that to apply.
     
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  10. haulappmobile

    haulappmobile Boxer

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    Solid response Andy.

    To finalize my points on this subject (I feel they might have been misconstrued):

    If two situations like this are the same, then treat them that way. Don’t scrutinize one but praise and justify the other.

    Also, no one owns the right to an idea, only the execution of said idea. If Pigeon Pop never stole the animations, then it should have the right to exist as it’s own property. But they did steal them so they deserve all the backlash coming. Copying anything to the point where both play in perfect sync is complete TRASH.


    Let’s also stop giving things fancy names as well. The "model and improve" formula is the “You did it first but I did it better” mentality of stealing/plagiarizing. Sometimes ethical and sometimes not. Absolutely used in this instance.
     
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  11. Christoph

    Christoph Miniboss Boxer

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    I agree with most of what you say but not with the quote above. It is a big difference if your entire work (game in this case) is build upon the work of someone else or if it is just a small part of it. Pigeon Pop's entire gameplay concept is build on Keke's art. The dance in Fortnite is probably not even a 0.001% of the entire game. Now you could argue that you can build an entire game as an homage to someone else's art, yes you definitely can. But this is when you definitely will need a lawyer or simply should ask for permission. Again, if your game is a parody of the original art, then this doesn't apply. You can do whatever you want. Legally speaking.
     
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  12. TreySmith

    TreySmith Administrator Staff Member

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    Want to hear something interesting? I heard the artist had never heard of Keke and never saw his work. I don't know the artist, haven't talked to him, and have no dog in this fight... but I thought that was interesting nonetheless.

    As for copyright law, we've had to deal with this A LOT and it always comes back to the phrase "Likeliness to cause confusion". That's how the law defines copyright violations, and if someone can legitimately get confused and think it's the source material -- and not a new rendition -- then they could have a case.

    This is exactly why we can't let anyone use the Buildbox logo or name in their product (even if it's helping Buildbox, like BuildboxFiles.com or something). If someone sees that, they can likely be confused in thinking it's us.
     
  13. Jamie

    Jamie Avid Boxer

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    Man i gotta scrap my Builddalf Ganbox character now too ;)
     
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  14. Christoph

    Christoph Miniboss Boxer

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    That I would believe if the animation pacing was different. He literally traced the animation. lol. I mean it couldn't be more obvious that he had the damn video in front of him (respectively underneath in another layer, onionskinning the entire thing). But yeah, I probably would say the same thing in his situation. :)
     
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  15. brakewind723

    brakewind723 Serious Boxer

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    Lmao dude you are too good with these :D:D:D
     
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  16. Jamie

    Jamie Avid Boxer

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    Seriously though, I think @TreySmith is saying that he has had to do the tough job of telling others they cannot use the trademark 'Buildbox' in, for example, their training websites they make with e.g. video tutorials and such, or with bbdoc files available for sale. Such sites are fine, so long as they don't use IP that is not their own. Totally understandable.

    However, I think @TreySmith would still be open to customers putting "Built with" and the buildbox logo in a loading screen of a game product, right, or no?
     
  17. Jamie

    Jamie Avid Boxer

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    ...having to cast all my lazy shire ideas into the fiery pit of Mount Azkadoom... o_O
     
  18. TreySmith

    TreySmith Administrator Staff Member

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    For sure, and we'll even automatically include a "made with Buildbox" logo in the Free and $15 per month version of Buildbox launching soon. The difference, as you stated, is it's promoting our brand instead of possibly confusing people into thinking it's actually us.

    Speaking of our logo, @Andy brought up a really important point I spaced on. What we deal with is issues with TRADEMARK law, not COPYRIGHT law. All the Buildbox stuff, and likeliness of confusion, is around trademark law. I haven't dealt with copyright law as much, which is more based on works of art instead of logos, designs, and brand identities.
     
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  19. TreySmith

    TreySmith Administrator Staff Member

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    Yeh, totally looks bad, but thought it was interesting.

    You know what I would be curious to see, that I haven't seen anyone bring up? The original source video from Keke. Seems like that would be an important piece of evidence in this Boxer investigation ;)
     
  20. Benfont

    Benfont Avid Boxer

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    @TreySmith here you go (Published on 27 Sep 2015)
     

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