Fortafy Games Accused Of Plagiarization.

Discussion in 'Buildbox General Discussion' started by wesam_badr, Mar 2, 2018.

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  1. wesam_badr

    wesam_badr Miniboss Boxer

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    There is a campaign waged by some internet users against Fortafygames accusing that the art used in their last game pigeon pop was plagiarised from a French artist and animator named by Keke and from a sticker app by another artist.

    You can see the tumbler post here to see more details:

    https://k-eke.tumblr.com/post/17120...-have-sad-news-to-bring?is_highlighted_post=1

    also, their facebook was shuted down for the same reason and their game in iTunes is plunging with negative reviews. that result that Fortafy game in the way of losing its reputation.

    what do you think boxer is inspiring the animation from this artist could be considered a stealing of his work.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  2. spicedbeangames

    spicedbeangames Miniboss Boxer

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    It is striking just how similar the animations are and even the art. Is it 'stealing'? Who knows. Game designers are inspired by things all the time and I dont believe that anyone has a god given right to a 'style' of animation or art style. However, the shop icon and his bird icons are almost exactly the same too.

    Though one but he has managed to get Facebook to buy the idea for now.
     
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  3. wesam_badr

    wesam_badr Miniboss Boxer

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    I know but copying motion is hardly plagiarism, I don't know that artist, however, there is a lot of people very convinced that this is a clear steal of art refer to this https://twitter.com/Kekeflipnote/status/967067347864440835
    so sad to see a good publisher get into this situation maybe they weren't aware of this maybe its the developer fault.
     
  4. thatguyminib

    thatguyminib Serious Boxer

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    Is it really stealing though? I honestly think it is more of a model and improve type of thing. I get why the dude is mad because this big hit game came out making money and it looks like they were inspired by his animations when he probably could have had good success if he created a game with them.

    Idk I don't think it is technically stealing. Would it have been nice of the company to message him and say hey we were inspired by your animations and are going to make a game on it! I mean does that mean if I release a game with bobbing animations like that then I will get bad reviews as well? Now no one can release a game that has animations even close to his? Idk just doesn't make sense. Also in the game they have a bunch of other fucky animations.

    @TreySmith what do you think? Is this a variation of model and improve?
     
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  5. Danlespect

    Danlespect Avid Boxer

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  6. jmiller8031

    jmiller8031 Avid Boxer

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    I'd say inspiration. I've played through Pigeon Pop. There are way more animations than what this Keke guy is talking about. They might have gotten the original idea from him, but they turned it into an entire theme of their own.

    It's kind of like the original poster of this dog video demanding credit for coming up with the idea for one of Keke's animations.
    https://k-eke.tumblr.com/post/170764900681/ﻌ?is_highlighted_post=1
     
  7. spicedbeangames

    spicedbeangames Miniboss Boxer

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    Actually, I wonder if this is one of Fortafy's PR stunts? The game hasn't been Color Switch big on the App Store and hardly breaks the Top 50. With all this coverage now, and chatter over Social media, people will no doubt start downloading it to see what all the fuss is about.
     
  8. wesam_badr

    wesam_badr Miniboss Boxer

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    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  9. Christoph

    Christoph Miniboss Boxer

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    We discussed this somewhere else and after looking at all the information available I must say, this is clearly a copy of the original artwork. Same animation (literally, I mean same pacing and everything), same animal, same action of eating and dancing at the same time. So yes, this is clearly stealing from someone else, not only the idea but as well the execution. Did they expand on it? Yes. Did they make something completely new with it (aka a game)? Yes. This doesn't take away from the fact though that they should have paid the original artist to use the dancing pigeon and the original idea. Or at the very least, having collaborated with the original artist or asked him permission. It seems they thought it was just another Internet meme, but it's not. This artist has a huge trajectory and the pigeons are an important part from his essential work. They definitely didn't know who the guy was, if not they would have cared more about it. It's not that they just copied an animated pigeon from some movie or so. It's a piece of art with trajectory that stands on its own. Or if you compare it with a commercial example: it's like copying Mickey Mouse and changing only a little bit the design and then use it in another context (the game). Would you get in trouble with it when you copy the exact same Disney Logo with Mickey Mouse like that? I'm sure you will.

    Having said that, this is also an important discussion about ethics. Should you really treat other artists this way? Should we care or not about other disciplines in art? This is not only about making money but we are also expressing ourselves as artists. So what hurts maybe even more is the fact that some very cool artists (h8games, one of the most successful indie developers of the last couple of years who published with Ketchapp, Voodoo and now Fortafy) are treating another cool artist like that.

    And then what others said, for Fortafy this is not good at all. They get negative feedback everywhere. After what happened with Color Switch this is definitely not what they wanted. They better get this fixed as soon as possible and start to work with the original artist or there social empire that they build up in the last 2 years will suffer badly. Online communities don't forget that easily.
     
  10. AppNasty

    AppNasty Miniboss Boxer

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    Joined in on the tweets lol LOVE me some controversy. lolololol Spoke to a nay sayer.
    "But that's saying that plagiarism can only happen with ART. Animation [movement] can be plagiarized too. Just like dance moves can be plagiarized. Whats the diff?"
     
  11. and249

    and249 Avid Boxer

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    Fortafy Games are just publishers. The game studio who made this game should be acussed I think.
     
  12. brakewind723

    brakewind723 Serious Boxer

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    Yeah, those animations are copied down to the bone. The same number of keyframes and everything. Being an artist previously it isn’t rare for big companies to exploit the work you post on the internet and thinking you have little to no reach and power. I do believe however Fortafy probably had no idea as they are the publisher and not the developer, but probably should have done some research.

    This does bring up an interesting discussion about what is on and off the table. Developers essentially copy gameplay all the time, so is that fair game but animations are not? People in the past took direct reference from animatics, like a walk cycle or character performing dance moves.

    I guess it didn’ help that they used a pigeon too lol
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  13. thatguyminib

    thatguyminib Serious Boxer

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    Yeah I'm wondering where the line is here. Does this mean that nobody can use very bouncy squashy stretchy animations that are relatively similar to theirs?
     
  14. brakewind723

    brakewind723 Serious Boxer

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    I think the bigger debate here is what is plagiarizing/stealing? A cut and dry example is someone deliberately stealing your art/animation and reposting it with no proper credit. The thing here and in a lot of cases is "loose" adaptation. I know as an artist we want to be credited for what we believe is our original creation and style, but claiming stealing in every case like this is a stretch. If we want to be honest here Fortafy is using the same concept that is nailed down in all game devs, "Model and Improve". You may argue well that is just used for gameplay, but I see little to no difference in remixing already established gameplay and animation. We would all be victims if that was the case.

    Is Color Switch stealing from Flite? The gameplay is exactly the same just with a smart reskin and added color dynamic. That would be the case here but opposite, the animations are exactly the same but with an added context of gameplay. I agree the developer should have gotten some sort of permission, but I guess it's one of those necessary evil situations.

    I think popularity was a big thing here. The original creator is highly praised on his platform. The narrative would inevitably be "Highly successful company plagiarizing small social media artist.".
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  15. VectologyGames

    VectologyGames Serious Boxer

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    They used pigeons...
     
  16. spicedbeangames

    spicedbeangames Miniboss Boxer

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    It looks like Disney have been up to the same tricks with their Solo Poster for Star Wars.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. brakewind723

    brakewind723 Serious Boxer

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    It seems that the artist complaining is only responsible for the animations. The pigeon designs themselves people are saying could be copied from another artist, but the artist already addressed on twitter that she doesn't mind.
     
  18. VectologyGames

    VectologyGames Serious Boxer

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    It was dumb for a company to use wholesale another artist designs (please see the current social media disaster). Although Fortafy games may be off the hook LEGALLY, they will be viewed as a bully in the social media world. Use a duck instead....
     
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  19. Jamie

    Jamie Avid Boxer

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    Even if there is no theft/plagiarism issue, the Pigeon Pop game idea doesn't really entice me to play it... The pigeon wagging its butt around is funny, but it is not even really part of the gameplay itself. It is added fluff. "Make the pigeon bite the brown things" isn't really a very appealing game task/mechanic in my honest opinion
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  20. Christoph

    Christoph Miniboss Boxer

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    Yeah, they should have done a Chicken Pop and their problem would have been resolved straight away. But sometimes you don't put a lot of attention to small details or you simply miss them (even though they result later to be very obvious and bigger than you thought they were).

    @brakewind723: I definitely think that gameplay is something completely else. It's like a script in a movie. I refer not to the content, but rather to the basic structure of it. Like a 3 act structure or a 4 act structure. The way the main action develops so to say. You can't copyright this. If not there would be only 1 action movie. Or in the case of games, 1 platformer for example. That would suck big time for us artists since it would take away our complete freedom. BUT yes, you definitely should be able to protect your design and with it, your character. This includes characteristics and personalities. If you are going to do a movie with Rambo as the main protagonist, make sure that his name is not Rambo and that his background story is different and that his story develops different (this excludes obviously satire). So in this case, if they had changed the pigeon to a chicken it would have changed everything. But using a pigeon and using the same animations frame by frame + make the main theme of the pigeon dancing and eating at the same time the main theme of the game was definitely not clever. So yeah, PR disaster is an obvious thing at this point.

    @Jamie: calm down and move your hips. A little pigeon dance makes you happy like everybody else... So NOW play this game (please)! :)
     
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